Curse

IxChel · Sep 13, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

The goal of this thread is to suggest changes to the Monk's Smiting skill
line to make the monk more of a 'porcupine' than a direct damage dealer.

Fixed Zealot's Fire #1 (10,1,30)
For 60 seconds, whenever you use a skill on an ally below 40-70%
health, all foes who have attacked your target in the past 2-5 seconds
are struck for 5-37 fire damage.

Fixed Balthazar's Aura (25,1,15)
For 10 seconds, foes who attack the target ally take 20-44 damage
per attack.

Fixed Holy Wrath (10, 2, >1)
While you maintain this enchancement, when ever target ally takes
damage greater than 5% of max health, 20-60% of the damage is
dealt back to the source and you lose 5 energy.

Scourage Healing is completely removed from the game since it
doesn't even remotely fit in the "porcupine" theme. Holy Wrath becomes
the smiting equivalent of protective bond.

lishi · Sep 13, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

why a monk shouldn't be a direct damage dealer?

lishi · Sep 13, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Ok comment about skill change.

1) Zealot fire

This is monk skill right? if a monk cast a spell on allies it will cure it also and this will rend the spell useless.

2) Balthazaar aura

in this way the skill require a lot of condition to become a non efficent damage skill.

3) never used it i cant comment.

IxChel · Sep 13, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

1) Zealot fire
This is monk skill right? if a monk cast a spell on allies it will cure it also and this will rend the spell useless.

Well, the idea of this nerf is to make ZF only trigger if the monk spell
is cast for a reason (ie, the ally is hurting). Thus, a monk who is
constantly healing people will see the same "effect" as what was
probably originally intended -- as they cast spells on that ally, ZF will
trigger since that ally needs help. This nerf would render unworkable
the idea of spamming Draw Conditions or Reveral of Fortune (when
the target ally doesn't in fact need any healing or protection).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

2) Balthazaar aura
in this way the skill require a lot of condition to become a non
efficent damage skill.

Actually, if you cast it on a focused-fired ally; you could seriously hurt
the other team with this "fix". If you run the numbers, I actually think
this is a good buff. It just makes BA unusable for the el/mo, but
instead makes it a serious 25en porcupine deterrant. If the opposing
team doesn't stop wanding the target ally -- they will take a great deal
of damage. Note that there isn't an AOE component in this re-framed
skill...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Holy Wrath - never used it i cant comment.

That's because the skill is junk and needs a serious buff. I'd like to see
in the smiting line something equivalent to protective bond (triggers at
damage over a particular amount) that deals damage back to spikers.

Overall, the goal is to nerf the "direct damage", but buff the "porcupine
damage" -- if you attack a protected ally, you will pay a stiff price. The
problem with "direct damage" is that the elementalist already does it in
spades and giving the monk (the equivalent of) an elementalist skill isn't
helpful to game balance and diversity. However, giving them skills /w a
serious in-game effect that is not direct damage could make game play
far more interesting and improve meta-game strategy, etc.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Sep 13, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Some of the things I've found is there isnt alot of difference between Monk Smiting and Mesmer Direct Damage spells.

And really if you do a Me/Mo or the reverse, these spells almost go hand in hand. I think Smiting should be direct damage to single targets, and limit it to that. Getting rid of Smite Enchantments would take away alot of the problem. Keeping the Skills, Signets, Spells and Hexes would bring back the true idea of Smiting. And keeping the damage to single targets would back Smiting out of the Elementalist AoE fields.

Maybe I'm being stupid again, but that's how I feel. I mean, protection enchantments are meant to protect the monk and others, why do they need smiting enchanments aswell to do the same job as protection spells?

johnnylange · Sep 13, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Keep in mind though that smiting skills aren't used solely by monks either. Changing these skills would also effect the w/mo builds like the one i'm working on. The thing that I don't like about the idea change is, it's mostly based on the health percentage of the target ally. Not only would it reduce the skill's effectiveness, but also make using it more complicated (more to think about while in battle.)

Yen-lo-wang · Sep 13, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Actually, Scourge Healing is practically a must if you're running a Me/Mo Monk/Caster killer. Just because it's in the smiting line doesn't mean that it has to be used by monks.

Mandy Memory · Sep 13, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

i dissagree with the first 2, as every class can heal itself with a few skills, and attack with a lot...the monk can heal with a lot of skills, and attack with a few...its fair

and the last one....yeah...holy wrath needs a major boost....perhaps

whenever target ally takes damage over 15...5% of his max health, the remaining damage is redirected back to the source and you lose 5 energy

Goonter · Sep 13, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Zealots Fire
For 60 seconds, whnever an ally is healed all foes adjacent to your target are struck for damage half of the amount of the effects of healing.

Applications. Healing sead, Healing Spring, Vigoruous Spirit, Healing Hands, Divine INtervention and more make wonder combonations for this skill.

Balthazars Aura
For 6-10 seconds foes adjacent to you take 2 damage for each point in Divine Favor each second.

Thats a serious buff for monk smitters and a serious nerf for e/mo or w/mo smitters.

lishi · Sep 13, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Zealots Fire
For 60 seconds, whnever an ally is healed all foes adjacent to your target are struck for damage half of the amount of the effects of healing.

Applications. Healing sead, Healing Spring, Vigoruous Spirit, Healing Hands, Divine INtervention and more make wonder combonations for this skill.

Balthazars Aura
For 10 seconds foes adjacent to you take 2 damage for each point in Divine Favor each second.

Thats a serious buff for monk smitters and a serious nerf for e/mo or w/mo smitters.

1)

i can see the combo
Heal Other , aura of faith , divine boom

150-180 damage boost...

About emo smiter

The creator of game said the game is on skill

you should find the right way to put together the skill using advantage of one skill and reducing the disadvandage of the other.

E/MO smiter is one of the best build on this idea.

Destroing this build is agaist the Gw skill core idea.

lishi · Sep 13, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Zealots Fire
For 60 seconds, whnever an ally is healed all foes adjacent to your target are struck for damage half of the amount of the effects of healing.

Applications. Healing sead, Healing Spring, Vigoruous Spirit, Healing Hands, Divine INtervention and more make wonder combonations for this skill.

Balthazars Aura
For 10 seconds foes adjacent to you take 2 damage for each point in Divine Favor each second.

Thats a serious buff for monk smitters and a serious nerf for e/mo or w/mo smitters.

1)

i can see the combo
Heal Other , aura of faith , divine boom

150-180 damage ever 3 sec...

About emo smiter

The creator of game said the game is on skill

you should find the right way to put together the skill using advantage of one skill and reducing the disadvandage of the other.

E/MO smiter is one of the best build on this idea.

Destroing this build is agaist the Gw skill core idea.

yesitsrob · Sep 14, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

<REMOVED REPLY TO DELETED POST>

__

In response to the post, quite like the idea of some of the changes, esepcially the holy wrath one - it is as you say useless right now. and scourge healing should be on a mesmer - not a monk.

Balths aura - you're change, I like it... characters under focus fire.. it's going to be a useful spell... I'd probably lower the energy cost by 5 maybe

Zealots fire change - it will work, just something about it that doesn't seem practical - casting reversal of fortune on a full health character is fair in my opinion. I'd probably say one of the following i) shorter dutation ii) slightly less damage iii) higher energy cost (except with all the notatallelementalist/MONKS - what is a higher energy cost :-(

NatalieD · Sep 14, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Don't you think "porcupine" is a really narrow concept to base an entire attribute around? I mean, for smiting to be more well-defined is a noble goal, but I think you're trying to go too far.

I love the general idea of Zealot's Fire because it lets a monk deal damage by defending her teammates, instead of zapping the enemies directly like an elementalist would. Granted, changing it to benefit less from Draw-spam and more from actual monking would be great, but changing it into some kind of weird mutant Retribution? Why not just, like, make it unable to trigger more than once every three seconds, or have it only trigger when your skill use causes an ally to gain health/gain an enchantment/lose a hex or condition?

Goonter · Sep 14, 2005, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

1)

i can see the combo
Heal Other , aura of faith , divine boom

150-180 damage ever 3 sec...

Thanks for pointing that out. Ill dream up another one.

Zealots Fire
For 60 seconds, whnever an ally is healed from a spell all foes adjacent to your target are struck for 5-45 fire damage.

Anything with divine favor can still spam it stupid so it takes a monk to take advantage of it. But it doesnt stop anyone else from getting milage out of it.

you try it..

Quote:

About emo smiter

The creator of game said the game is on skill

you should find the right way to put together the skill using advantage of one skill and reducing the disadvandage of the other.

E/MO smiter is one of the best build on this idea.

Destroing this build is agaist the Gw skill core idea.

I promise you I aint going to destroy e/mo smitters.
I personally dont have the power to do so. If the developers change anything, it will have less to do with my suggestions and probably more to do with what the feel is proper through testing.
In my opinion though, monks holy magic has proven to be more threating through elementist than through monks and sometimes even more so than other elemental spells and I think thats wack.

Evisicator · Sep 14, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Why not just, like, make it unable to trigger more than once every three seconds, or have it only trigger when your skill use causes an ally to gain health/gain an enchantment/lose a hex or condition?

umm if it was trigger only when the ally gained heatlh Draw Conditions+1 point of Divine favor= 3 points of health gain, and thus still keeps the spam intact.

Anyways there is absolutely no reason to change the way smiting works. If you are having problems dealing with smiting then change your tactics and strategies and not try to revamp skills because of your inadaquacies.

yesitsrob · Sep 14, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

This thread is ridiculous. You're a pathetic fool and I hope you are smited down. You're saying monks should not be able to deal any damage worth shit and be there to heal only. Go to hell.

Yet he said...

Quote:

Fixed Holy Wrath (10, 2, >1)
While you maintain this enchancement, when ever target ally takes
damage greater than 5% of max health, 20-60% of the damage is
dealt back to the source and you lose 5 energy.

Looks more powerful to me....

Quote:

Fixed Balthazar's Aura (25,1,15)
For 10 seconds, foes who attack the target ally take 20-44 damage
per attack.

44 max - about 1.8 times more than the current max now, just works when target is hit... as to not be a travelling firestorm (although i worry about this in pve, much more poweful than curret balth aura unless AI is improved)

Quote:

Fixed Zealot's Fire #1 (10,1,30)
For 60 seconds, whenever you use a skill on an ally below 40-70%
health, all foes who have attacked your target in the past 2-5 seconds
are struck for 5-37 fire damage.

One of the greatest aoe damage spells in the game, and if used on a focused target, not going to be much different than what it is now

__

In conclusion - wow, you're wrong, idiot

Imorthorn · Sep 14, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

the skills are fine the way thay are

IxChel · Sep 14, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Thanks for all of your (usually informed) responses!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Zealots Fire
For 60 seconds, whenever an ally is healed from a spell all foes adjacent
to your target are struck for 5-45 fire damage.

Anything with divine favor can still spam it stupid so it takes a monk to
take advantage of it. But it doesnt stop anyone else from getting milage
out of it.

Yes, this is much simpler, and accomplishes the primary goal of making
ZF only trigger when the monk is actually healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evisicator

umm if [Zealot's Fire] was trigger only when the ally
gained heatlh Draw Conditions+1 point of Divine favor= 3 points of health
gain, and thus still keeps the spam intact

Currently, most abuse of ZF happens on a "guided missile" warrior
that is already at full health. The usage of ZF in this context is not
to "do damage to those hurting a team mate", it's just raw damage
dealing. Certainly this change is also abusable; your warrior can just
take BiP -- and thus constantly be down 30% health -- but, I'm seeing
this as a good combo, not abuse, since it requires team coordination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Zealots fire change - it will work, just something about
it that doesn't seem practical - casting reversal of fortune on a full health
character is fair in my opinion. I'd probably say one of the following i)
shorter dutation ii) slightly less damage iii) higher energy cost (except
with all the notatallelementalist/MONKS - what is a higher energy
cost :-(

Yea, my version was too complicated to be workable. I think Goonter
has kept the essence of the change; yet making it far less abusable. It
is true that this version wouldn't give the bonus if you're casting reversal
of fortune -- however, most of the time when you're using RoF the
opponent already has damage done to them, and as Goonter points
out even a 1 in Divine Favor will then cause some healing to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

I love the general idea of Zealot's Fire because it lets a monk deal damage
by defending her teammates, instead of zapping the enemies directly like
an elementalist would. Why not just, like, make it unable to trigger more
than once every three seconds, or have it only trigger when your skill use
causes an ally to gain health/gain an enchantment/lose a hex or
condition?

Sure, let's try...

Zealots Fire #2
For 60 seconds, whenever you use a spell on an ally which causes a
damage to be healed / a condition or hex to be removed, all foes
adjacent to your target are struck for 5-37 fire damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yen-lo-wang

Actually, Scourge Healing is practically a must if you're running a Me/Mo
Monk/Caster killer. Just because it's in the smiting line doesn't mean that
it has to be used by monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

In response to the post, quite like the idea of some of the changes,
esepcially the holy wrath one - it is as you say useless right now. and
scourge healing should be on a mesmer - not a monk.

I agree that Scourage Healing is a very useful skill; it just belongs in
the necromancer curse line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Balths aura - you're change, I like it... characters under focus fire.. it's
going to be a useful spell... I'd probably lower the energy cost by 5 maybe

I do too... even better after letting it sit 24h. BA was just a buffed
searing heat, this one is actually a serious porcupine. Sure -- a
25 or 15 energy /w damage adjusted appropriately is probably a
better idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

(Holy Wrath)
whenever target ally takes damage over 15...5% of his max health, the
remaining damage is redirected back to the source and you lose 5
energy

Oh, that's nice. Thanks for contributing your suggestion!